Comments on: on revelation

By: Richard

Richard — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:23:24 +0000

I doubt he believes Moses wrote that!!

By: berenike

berenike — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:42:51 +0000

I was just making humorous conversation.

By: cath

cath — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:23:48 +0000

(Hopefully Richard knows, i’ve not got a clue)

By: berenike

berenike — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:53:28 +0000

Does Richard Pratt think Moses wrote the bit about Moses died and the children of Israel mourned him at the end of Deuteronomy?

By: Richard

Richard — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:22:04 +0000

The incarnational analogy has been made by Peter Enn in his Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament. Beale has written a book response against Beale entitled The Erosion of Inerrancy in Evangelicalism: Responding to New Challenges to Biblical Authority. I agree with Enns and I can't wait to read Beale's response when it arrives.

By: cath

cath — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:55:36 +0000

Yes, i’m sure it can be a helpful analogy actually. I was just following out a train of thought there and should have said so at the time :)
(Altho just for the avoidance of ambiguity i’d better just add that of course the analogy breaks down in that the union of the divine and the human in the person of Christ is a personal union, which must be more mysterious than even the mystery of how human words can simultaneously be the words of God.)

By: Oliver Stegen

Oliver Stegen — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:40:29 +0000

Cath, pretty impressive for a “rushed” statement :-)

All I was focusing on was the similarity of the two Words with regard to human/divine interaction, i.e. the dual nature of Christ possibly being mirrored in the dual nature of Scripture.

Happy running!

By: cath

cath — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:10:02 +0000

But Richard, why do you say that the opening verse of the book of Joel is editorial rather than original? What criteria underlie that statement? Again it could be that I just don’t know enough, but I don’t see that discriminating/distinguishing between original and editorial comes even from anything as principled as an assumption – aren’t there any replicable, ‘third-party-observable’ procedures that could be demonstrated to show how particular sections of the text can be classified as one or the other?
And again you’ll forgive me if I say I don’t really understand why it should be problematic to accept at face value the claim of Joel 1:1, that these are the words of the prophet Joel which the Holy Spirit inspired someone, perhaps even Joel, to write down?

Oliver – I’d think of these divine revelations perhaps not so much as a precursor to the Word Incarnate, as simply our source of information about him (the place we can most clearly/truly see him). I mean, neither prior to nor subsequent to the incarnation would the scriptures have been a substitute for personal acquaintance with the promised Messiah, but at the same time nobody could ever come to a true knowledge of him without believingly engaging with the revelation embodied in the scriptures. I’m not sure i’ve said that very clearly. I do believe that the way of salvation was the same in both the OT and the NT – ie faith in Christ, either Christ-to-come or Christ-as-come. [That's a separate controversy ( http://ninetysixandten.wordpress.com/2006/03/18/ot-believers-were-saved-the-same-way/ and http://ninetysixandten.wordpress.com/2006/05/29/what-did-peter-know-about-the-trinity/) but i thought i should state it outright!] But sticking with the present discussion, I said in point 7 in the original post, “Just as we cannot know God except by Christ, we cannot know Christ except by the Scriptures.” As Jesus opened up the (OT) scriptures to the disciples on the road to Emmaeus, what he showed them was himself in all the scriptures – that’s the key, i think, to my understanding of the purpose and function of the scriptures. They are a reliable, and compelling/authoritative display of all that we need to know about the Saviour, and they are both reliable and authoritative because they are God’s display/revelation of what we need to know.

Ok, that’s a bit rushed and i’m going to regret not polishing it up any better but have to run now … :)

By: Oliver Stegen

Oliver Stegen — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:02:43 +0000

Cath, your quote from Packer calling the Scriptures as truly divine as human is reminiscent of the incarnation, of course. To that extent, the Written Word of God is just as dual in its essence as the nature of the Living Word, i.e. Christ. At least in the case of the OT, would you regard these divine revelations as a precursor to the Word Incarnate even in its duality of nature / essence?

It’s a long time since I’ve grappled with these issues (I left Bible college in 1995), and I’m thoroughly enjoying this. Thanks!

By: Richard

Richard — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:11:17 +0000

BTW: Aims of OT Textual Criticism by Bruce K. Waltke